'Outrage' over DPS pay plan
By Nancy Mitchell, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Published June 26, 2008 at 12:37 p.m.
Updated June 26, 2008 at 12:37 p.m.
Denver voters who approved a $25 million annual tax hike to fund a revolutionary teacher pay plan would be "surprised and outraged" by how the money is being spent, a citizens' group said today.
Only $7 million of the $25 million — or less than a third — is finding its way into paychecks for teachers in Denver Public Schools, the district says.
"Voters intended the money to be spent, not saved and not squirreled away," said John Hereford, co-chair of the A-Plus Denver committee studying the pay plan known as ProComp.
A-Plus Denver, which advises DPS on issues such as school closures, reviewed ProComp after DPS and its teachers union reached impasse in contract negotiations over how to change the plan.
Union leaders have even suggested a strike is possible at the Democratic National Convention in August, when the national media is expected to flood the city.
Hereford and co-chair Scott Foust, both DPS parents, emphasized they are not weighing in on the contract dispute.
But they — and about a dozen other members of their A-plus committee — agreed in today's discussion that the pay plan is not working as voters intended.
"We are trying to be ruthlessly objective" about whether ProComp is reaching its goal of improving student achievement, said Hereford, an investment banker whose Hereford Capital Advisors works with companies on renewable energy policy.
"We do care deeply about whether that is happening," he said. "It's not, and it needs to."
ProComp is being watched nationally because it is the first wide-scale pay plan for teachers that doles out more money for factors such as improving student achievement and working in high-poverty schools.
That's a significant departure from teacher pay systems across the country that are based on accumulating years of service and additional college credits.
Denver voters agreed to fund the groundbreaking plan in 2005.
But fewer than half of DPS teachers have joined the plan and district officials now estimate that $87 million in ProComp dollars will be left over at the end of the 2008-09 school year.
DPS leaders want to spend more of that money, to focus it on annual bonuses and to funnel it to younger teachers who are leaving DPS at higher rates.
One in five teachers leaves DPS in the first five years and one in 11 teachers leaves in years six to 11, according to district data. Yet only 20 percent of teachers with four to 10 years' of experience are in ProComp.
Teachers union leaders argue it's too soon to make significant changes to the system and that the district proposal to change ProComp is not fair to all teachers, particularly veteran teachers.
A-plus members appear to be siding more with DPS. Today, they urged change sooner, not later, and said the focus should be on teachers with up to 11 years of experience.
Henry Roman, a union leader who has worked on ProComp since its inception, said he doesn't believe the group truly understands the complex system and its nine factors affecting teacher pay.
He, and other union leaders, fear the DPS proposal could bankrupt the ProComp trust fund.
"At this stage, I feel more information is needed before people make final recommendations," Roman said.
Recommending the $25 million be fully spent doesn't take into account the fact that much of the ProComp money becomes part of a teacher's salary — and must be paid out year and year, he said.
"I'm not sure the level of expertise is there," Roman said.
Hereford and Foust, who has an MBA and develops e-commerce projects for First Data Corp., acknowledge they may not understand every detail of ProComp.
But they're clear on the big picture, Hereford said.
"It's a program passed by voters and it's not working," he said, "The money is not being spent."
Members of the citizens' panel also agreed that ProComp should be changed now, and not after an evaluation by the University of Colorado is completed in late 2009.
Roman disagrees with a recommendation urging immediate action, saying waiting for the CU report will provide "three solid years of information" on which to base changes.
Foust and Hereford, with input from their committee members, said they will finalize their report over the next two weeks and deliver it to the Denver school board.
DPS and union leaders are scheduled to meet with a mediator on July 16 to set the agenda for their next round of talks, slated for late August.
It's unclear how the A-plus report might affect those talks.
Hereford said the union's earlier presentation to his group seemed to suggest they view Procomp is a pension system for teachers, on top of the one they already have.
"I don't agree," he said, "and I don't think the rest of the community does either."
Voters intended ProComp to be differentiated pay for teachers willing to take on harder jobs or those making gains with students, he and Foust said, not a pay raise for all.
"Clearly, no one wants to put the (ProComp) trust fund into bankruptcy," Foust said.
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June 26, 2008
1:05 p.m.
Suggest removal
LingLingfor_prez writes:
Not a surprise but Pajama is right.
June 26, 2008
1:10 p.m.
Suggest removal
Cowboy63 writes:
Once again, the taxpayers get stuck holding the bag (along with the tab) for another $25 million down the public education rathole.
How many of these teathers have THEIR OWN kids in DPS?
June 26, 2008
1:20 p.m.
Suggest removal
PI writes:
Pajama Pulitzer was forced to sit in the corner with a dunce cap on for the entirety of his elementary career, then the Independence Insititute hired him to fight teachers and unions anonymously in the blogosphere....gotta admit they are getting their money's worth for a 17 year old pimply faced drop-out who is mad at the world. He seems like a reasonable guy, I just wish he would wake up and get out of his pajamas so that he could see the world from the perepective of teachers who bust their humps to provide for other peoples children.
June 26, 2008
1:34 p.m.
Suggest removal
PI writes:
DPS starting pay is $40k: "Pajama Pulitzer doesn't know his facts!"
Test scores stink: "Pajama Pulitzers Rhetoric stinks!"
Teachers sleeping with students: "Pajama Pulitzer wishes any teacher would want to sleep with him!"
Taxes are at an all time high: "Pajama Pilitzer gets a tax break cause he's rich!"
75% of HS students flunk math. "Pajama Pulitzer Flunked Too!"
Summers, Spring Break, Christmas Break off: "Pajama Pulitzer on vacation also, at far nicer locales!"
Teachers retire at 75% of full salary: "Pajama Pultizer stalks librarians over 60 to de-fraud them of their retirement with risky investment schemes!"
Anybody tired of Pajama Pulitzers right wing ramblings, does this guy get a text sent to him every time the word 'union'appears in an article in the state of colorado.
June 26, 2008
1:46 p.m.
Suggest removal
yeastyc writes:
My husband teaches in Aurora public schools, and I am sure that DPS starting pay is not $40K, PajamaPulitzer. To put all teachers into that whining group that doesn't know how to teach and molests students is just plain wrong. For the amount of work a good teacher does, they are underpaid when compared to other professional jobs (I can say that because I worked in a high school for a year before I started grad school and saw firsthand how little respect they are given for all their hard work and I see what my husband goes through--you on the otherhand, are just throwing out your opinion with no real facts), which is why they get the vacations, during which many of the good teachers continue to do work without getting paid. If you think you can do better, by all means, go get your certification, have that hefty $40K /year paycheck and your vacation and access to high school students, no one's stopping you--let's see if you can get a school full of poor kids who's parents don't care to finish high school and go off to college. Not a small task.
June 26, 2008
1:52 p.m.
Suggest removal
cableboy764 writes:
DPS needs to be scrapped and rebuilt from the ground up. Nepetism, corruption, employee theft, poor results, ect. has left the district broken and unfixable. This is just another example of DPS incompetance. I'm glad I no longer work for DPS or live in the city of Denver. Good luck citizens.
June 26, 2008
2:12 p.m.
Suggest removal
ou8one2 writes:
Blame Bush and Cheney. This would never happen under a liberal like Obama or Hickenlooper. Oh wait, liberals are already running things. Then the lack of money must be the problem, so like Obama says: "raise taxes."
As for those who keep whining that teachers are not paid enough, I am a victim of DPS and trust me, most of those teacher are way over paid.
June 26, 2008
2:14 p.m.
Suggest removal
cheech writes:
My wife has taught in DPS for 5 years and she does NOT make $40,000 a year. Most people work a 40 hour work week but that is just not the case for teachers. My wife gets to work by 7 am every morning and is out of the school building by 4. Then she comes home and spends the rest of the night making lesson plans, grading papers and getting materials ready for the next day. Not only that but she has to use her own money to get the materials she needs to educate her students. She also has to deal with worthless parents who feel that it is the schools job to raise their children and not just educate them. If crappy parents would do their jobs then teachers could spend more time doing theirs instead of having to waste time showing some kid how to be respectful of others and not be disruptive.
June 26, 2008
2:52 p.m.
Suggest removal
PI writes:
Lets make a deal Pajama, you stop bashing teachers and unions every chance you get and I'll go hunting endangered species with you.....only the ones that have no chance at ever rebuilding their populations. We can also correspond via snail mail if you like, I can send you funny anecdotes and comic strips at your minimum security prison while you do time for supporting war criminals like Bush, Cheney and John McSame and for spreading falsities about unions whose sole purpose is to protect workers rights and ensure decent compensation and working conditions. I would probably miss you too much and have to sneak you a sandwich with a file in it so you could escape, but you are so dense you would probably try and eat it and choke to death. Cheers!
June 26, 2008
3:07 p.m.
Suggest removal
PI writes:
Okay, well than I'll stop bashing you when you stop screwing yourself by talking out of your arse. We had a chance at squashing the beef and you passed on it, probably better that way, until we meet again....get some sleep and change those soiled PJ's.
June 26, 2008
3:19 p.m.
Suggest removal
timeandagain writes:
Here here Pajama!! I would only add that unions not only screw over American students, they screw over EVERYONE other than their own leadership's slimey pocketbooks!!
It is funny how I only see "Live Better Work Union" bumperstickers on old, crappy cars... Is that really living "better" or is that just what the union is telling them?
It blows my mind that the membership of ANY union actually believes the propaganda that its leadership spews. But, I guess, that is why they are union members to begin with...
June 26, 2008
3:29 p.m.
Suggest removal
JB writes:
Ummm....
Even if DPS teachers were paid $40k/year (which they don't)....umm, that's barely enough to make ends meet, let alone be considered "overpaid..." Why is it that one of the most important professions in this country pays the least?
June 26, 2008
3:30 p.m.
Suggest removal
PI writes:
Sorry I tried to make a move on Pajama, TimeandAgain, you guys can continue your circle jerk now. Aren't you 2 the same people that are anti-immigrant and say DPS just has Mexican kids anyway, why do you care? Whats with this 'America Students' crap, did you two just get back from sensitivity training down at the ranch in Crawford cause you know that your normal rhetoric ain't flyin no more? If we call them 'American Students,' we can break the unions....call 'em 'Mexican Students' and we can break the immigration movement until it serves us again to have their cheap labor....fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice...uh....just don't don't go foolin with us. Morons.
June 26, 2008
3:40 p.m.
Suggest removal
timeandagain writes:
PI -
You accidently put a period between "us" and "morons"...
June 26, 2008
3:49 p.m.
Suggest removal
PI writes:
Time and Again
I need to put a 'period' between you & PJ Pulitzers last encounter and the present to stop you both from procreating miniature cheney's, bush's and hitlers that multiply when they get wet and will help in your quest to take over the world.
June 26, 2008
3:49 p.m.
Suggest removal
Woogford writes:
"...unions whose sole purpose is to protect workers rights and ensure decent compensation and working conditions."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
June 26, 2008
4:12 p.m.
Suggest removal
PI writes:
You guys take care of yourselves and your fragile,spongy, spineless bodies & brains. I'll let my comrades take over from here and hopefully they can get back on topic, it's been real.
June 26, 2008
4:22 p.m.
Suggest removal
Buckwheat writes:
And people wonder why we still have TABOR.. Another tax hike that gets missed directed to sources other than those intended. Politicians due not no how to handle you money... Understand??
June 26, 2008
4:30 p.m.
Suggest removal
jhdteacher writes:
sure teachers get a lot of vacation time—but not PAID vacation time...certainly one understands they would have to be PAID additional monies to work during the winter, spring, and summer breaks
June 26, 2008
5:27 p.m.
Suggest removal
BetterEducated writes:
Once again, Cableboy has taken the words right out of my mouth!
June 26, 2008
7:28 p.m.
Suggest removal
WelcomebackKotter writes:
If you are a normal citizen of Denver reading this chain of senselessness, do yourself a favor and go talk to a teacher. They will tell you what is going on. There is little fact here, beware!
Main point is this: other metro districts offer more than DPS, which results in a lesser available talent pool and the good teachers eventually leaving DPS after they serve their time and start worrying about their financial future. It's the same in any job market and Denver is allowing the quality and experienced teachers to leave. By Denver, I mean everyone who lives in this city, not just the overpaid bureaucrats at 900 Grant.
June 26, 2008
8:15 p.m.
Suggest removal
Mike846 writes:
The bottom line is, the taxpayers once again are not getting what they asked for. The administration is closing 12 buildings, student population is down when properly measured, drop-out rates are astronomical, the money is not flowing through to the teachers, but Bennett (read: surrogate for Hizzoner the Mayor, and likely to run to replace the Looper when his term ends) WANTS MORE MONEY. I only have about 18 years of education. Someone want to explain the math of this to me? Mike
June 26, 2008
8:34 p.m.
Suggest removal
BetterEducated writes:
I'm sorry, Mike: It is totally beyond my comprehension.
And it's not as though I didn't TRY to study the math, I swear I did.
Apparently we are just not smart enough to figure it out...or something.
June 26, 2008
10:02 p.m.
Suggest removal
WeloveDenverkids writes:
It is interesting to me to note that everyone who is quoted in the article and every posted comment seems to have a different interpretation of what Pro-Comp means and how it should be administered. It seems to me that this reflects the fact that we as a community are far from reaching consensus on what we want from our schools. If we can't agree on the main purpose of our schools, how the heck can we agree on how to get there? Some people say CSAPs, others say no, others want public schools to be the great equalizer, others think that populations like illegal immigrants should not have access to public education, others think it should be to teach English to those students, and on and on.
I would challenge the A+ committee to come up with what they would define as the main goal and purpose (you could call it a power standard and you would if you taught to CSAP) of public education in Denver Public Schools.
When they reach consensus on what this main purpose is (and it should not be too difficult since there are fewer than fifty members on that committee), then they might entertain how to go about meeting that goal with merit pay.
Then we can have a public conversation about how pay should be used by DPS to reward the teachers who are best working toward that one central goal. (NO, the Denver Plan is NOT a goal-- that is like me saying when I teach a class that I will be covering all of the State standards in a day - which any good teacher knows is impossible in one lesson.)
Until that time, I being a fiscal conservative, would advocate for leaving Pro-Comp as it is - raises for teachers who EARN those raises and making sure that the Pro-Comp trust is not squandered away.
June 26, 2008
10:37 p.m.
Suggest removal
jacka writes:
Time to bust the union, time to bust administration get along go along strategies.
Time to CHARTERIZE ALL OF DPS!!!
June 28, 2008
9:45 a.m.
Suggest removal
prk166 writes:
If teachers aren't getting paid enough, why doesn't their union release the numbers for salary and compensation?