Posted by jvaleski on June 13, 2008 at 6:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

comical! it takes the prospect of their little gang being split up to call a meeting about a community concern. too late BVSD; go misappropriate your $500m budget elsewhere! days are numbered.

Posted by david on June 13, 2008 at 7:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

OMG - I agree with vkberlin. And it took BVSD to make it happen...

Posted by mojoworks on June 13, 2008 at 8:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"District spokesman Briggs Gamblin has said the district views the proposal as "unnecessary.”

The district's meeting next week is designed to serve as a way to "initiate a public discussion" of the proposal."

Translation: We want to control a discussion on our terms and tell people to their faces why they are wrong.

BVSDCAPE.org will host their own community meetings this summer where the real discussions will take place.

Visit www.bvsdcape.org for more real information (at share it with your friends and neighbors).

Posted by eap on June 13, 2008 at 8:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

At last Tuesday's board meeting there was ONE public participant. Helayne shut him down when he tried to ask the board a question. His issue? His kid has cancer. Do you think the petition advocates are going to get treated any better than that guy?

Posted by PhilFR on June 13, 2008 at 10:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm a relative newcomer to the Boulder area, but one with young kids, so I have a stake in this.

Seems to me that compared to other districts in Colorado and nationally, BVSD is doing quite well, (at least to the degree test scores suggest educational quality.) It seems to me that the churn involved in splitting a district and constituting two new sets of administration could easily damage that success.

I need to study it more, but my first impression is: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." And compared to much of the education that happens in the US, it's definitely not broken.

Posted by david on June 13, 2008 at 10:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

vkberlin - so you would not want me to point to the data I put together showing how BVSD has made no progress over the last 10 Years?

It's at http://www.davidthielen.info/politics... and there is no way to put all that in a comment here.

Posted by FlameOfWrath on June 13, 2008 at 10:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Will they be serving Kool-Aid?

Posted by jadam12 on June 13, 2008 at 1:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Amazing to think that there are a number of people who want to destroy one of the top ranked school districts in the nation and are bent on taking away that quality of education from the kids. All under the ruse of believing that splitting BVSD into two districts will somehow cause two seperate governing bodies to cater more to all of their personal whims.

Not one poster on any of these CAPE discussions as of late has ever brought up a legitimate concern, except for the closure of Mapleton and Washington schools. Beyond that what else is there?

What is even more sad is that this proposal is not about what is best for the kids, it is all about the entitled needs of adults.

Posted by jadam12 on June 13, 2008 at 1:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Eap: "At last Tuesday's board meeting there was ONE public participant. Helayne shut him down when he tried to ask the board a question. His issue? His kid has cancer. Do you think the petition advocates are going to get treated any better than that guy?"

What was the actual question the man asked of the board? You didn't present any information other than the guy asked a question and his kid has cancer. What is your point?

Posted by eap on June 13, 2008 at 1:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What is your point?

I think the empire has grown too big and its chiefs too imperious to even take a second to respond to a man in crisis. Why don't you watch the rerun and form your own opinion?

There is no dialog, no give-and-take. Going before the school board is like going before the great and powerful Oz. No questions are allowed during public participation. No comments are allowed after public participation. If you're lucky, they might talk about your issue during board communications, but they're more likely to instead talk about their weekend watching Harry Potter movies with their relatives.

And they chastise people for not attending board meetings. Sheesh.

Posted by jadam12 on June 13, 2008 at 1:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Seriously Eap, what happened at the meeting? You didn't answer the question?

"No questions are allowed during public participation. No comments are allowed after public participation."

How is this is differnt from any other public meeting process? You get your chance to make your point in the alloted time and then the next person has their time to make a statement.

Posted by david on June 13, 2008 at 1:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

>> Not one poster on any of these CAPE discussions as of late has ever brought up a legitimate concern...

Actually, I have posted http://www.davidthielen.info/politics... at each one of these where it shows that 30% of the students are not being educated at a level of competence or above and that that has held constant for 10 years.

On the flip side, I don't think the answer at this point is to split the district. But is there a problem - yes!

Posted by jadam12 on June 13, 2008 at 2:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

David, I went on to read your information and yes, %30 percent of students not performing well on a standardized test is a concern that should and is being addressed. You are also correct in saying that this is the real concern that should be addressed and CAPE is distracting the issue due to disgruntlement over 3 school closures.

It is also important to realize that the nature of the standardized tests need to be looked at as well, including how we use the data from just this one source.

It would be helpful and meaningful to look into what those 30% actually do excell at which is never tested in standardized tests nor addressed by the public. Those 30% may be great atheletes or good at skilled trade professions. They may be average students who are not good at taking a timed standardized test or do not yet have a solid grasp of the English language to understand the questions correctly.

Young Boys tend to score lower on standardized tests because many boys have a hard time sitting still and focusing for long periods of time. I never did well on SATs and the Iowa Tests yet I earned mostly A's and B's in all of my classes in grade school and college.

I like your website David. Keep it going!

Posted by FlameOfWrath on June 13, 2008 at 2:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Come on, jadam12, The main concern seems fairly obvious, the problem with the district is that they have decided to play one community's schools off against the other community's schools and remain unresponsive to all communities. Making the school board(s) responsible for smaller areas makes them more accountable to those areas.

Gone will be their argument, "We can't build/expand schools in Broomfield because Boulder has all these old building that need rehab." and they can't say "We can't keep these old buildings open because we've got so many other children out east that need new space." They will have to respond to these issues locally and focus on their constituents instead of using them as foils.

The school district meetings are needlessly bureaucratic. If the were smaller, this probably wouldn't be necessary and they would be interested in hearing what their constituents wanted to tell them even if it took more than 2 minutes.

The City Council has the opportunity to ask questions during public comments. I don't see them melting.

Posted by jadam12 on June 13, 2008 at 2:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I read through CAPE's website and have noticed the only reason stated for splitting the district is due to the closure of 2 schools and rebuilding some old schools that were in serious disrepair.

I still have yet to hear or read of any legitimate concerns or rationale by CAPE supporters for splitting the district.

CAPE does argue, that smaller schools perform better, yet this is not always the case. Cherry Creek school district is in the top 50 largest districts in the nation and yet it annually performs as one of the top districts in the nation. The smaller school rationale is not enough of a concern to destroy a school district when it hasn't even shown any decline in performance. Boulder schools are not big when you compare them to other large schools in the nation. In fact Boulder maintains small and effective class sizes to this day.

Another of CAPE's main tenents is to split the districts yet allow there to be open enrollment between the 2 districts as though it was still 1 district. This is clearly about having your cake and eating it too.

If people want to break up a nationaly top performing school district, there should be a multitude valid concerns for doing so.

Top on the list should be that the district is showing a decline in performance, which it clearly is not.

CAPE supporters are intentionally destroying the top level education of students for some beef about closing and reapairing some old "historic" schools. CAPE is clearly not keeping what is best for the children in mind with this nonsense.

Posted by jadam12 on June 13, 2008 at 3:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"The school district meetings are needlessly bureaucratic. If the were smaller, this probably wouldn't be necessary and they would be interested in hearing what their constituents wanted to tell them even if it took more than 2 minutes."

Got to love the "if then" and "grass is greener" arguments. All, I repeat, ALL schools districts no matter what their size encounter the same problems. Just read the education section of any city or town newspaper throughout the nation and you will hear the same issues, just with different names.

BVSD remains a top performing district in the nation. Why destroy something that is working?

If Broomfield, which is it's own county wants to start a new district then they need to work on that issue. CAPE's proposal would break off the Boulder County schools as close as Louisville. That makes no sense.

Posted by FlameOfWrath on June 13, 2008 at 3:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

jadam12: "BVSD remains a top performing district in the nation. Why destroy something that is working?"

Prove it is top performing in the nation. There are better school districts in Colorado. Splitting it into two districts doesn't "destroy it". It makes it better. Right now, it can't get out of its own way. If, as you posted, all school districts no matter what size encounter the same problems then why are you opposed to a smaller district. It will just encounter the same problems, right? As far as Louisville being in the eastern district, have you noticed that there is a open space ring around the City of Boulder that makes a natural dividing line for two districts? I'm sure they just chose whatever seemed to make the most sense for a dividing line.

Posted by FlameOfWrath on June 13, 2008 at 3:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Oh, wait, it is top ranked. If you go by size. Then it is in 7th place.

Posted by jvaleski on June 13, 2008 at 3:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

maybe instead of garnering people to attend in order to represent how much we need the split, we should all just not bother going and focus our energy on the petition. we know what needs to happen; the board is only going to be in self-preservation mode from now until the end. the board is powerless and irrelevant vis a vis publicly derived legislation to break them up. going just gives them a forum to confuse and self-justify.

Posted by jadam12 on June 13, 2008 at 3:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Flame: "If, as you posted, all school districts no matter what size encounter the same problems then why are you opposed to a smaller district."

CAPE people act as though BVSD is the only district with problems. They also have this utopian ideal that 2 new administrations will somehow perform better and will magically start addressing all of their concerns and wants. My point is that any district does and will always make some people mad and will never be able to address everyone's every little issue.

The cost and disruption associated with splitting the district is not worthwhile unless there are actually serious issues like a major decline in student performance.

People have this notion that this process will cost us nothing, but this will cost the taxpayers a lot of money in terms of studies, proposal writing, constructing new district offices, environmental plans, federal/state'local rules and regualtions paperwork, hiring and paying for another administration, set-up of infrastructure, new maintainence facilities, new buses, new IT department, new computers, new seperate servers and on and on for a number of years.

Also included will be the unforseern hidden costs of this disruption and infighting that will loewer the standards of learning for the years it takes to work it all out.

Again, the CAPE folks are not thinking of this interms of what is best for the kids, though they are trying to justify it with some studies about small school performance.

Posted by jadam12 on June 13, 2008 at 3:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Posted by jvaleski:

"maybe instead of garnering people to attend in order to represent how much we need the split, we should all just not bother going and focus our energy on the petition. we know what needs to happen; the board is only going to be in self-preservation mode from now until the end. the board is powerless and irrelevant vis a vis publicly derived legislation to break them up. going just gives them a forum to confuse and self-justify."

Interesting that you propose acting the very same way that you accuse the district of acting. I can see the same communication issues coming up from the CAPE supporters already and the petition is just getting started. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Posted by FlameOfWrath on June 13, 2008 at 5:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The BVSD school board is not hosting a meeting to "initiate public discussion". They are just hosting a fear-mongering session with lots of arm waving and gnashing of teeth about how bad things will be when this petition gets enough signatures and gets on the ballot. Expect your e-mail boxes to get filled with missives from the school board trying to scare you.

I bet they don't even give equal time to the CAPE people to present any information.

Posted by explorerjrh on June 13, 2008 at 8:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Jadam12:
You misinform just like the board. Are you shooting for a job in the admin?

Several things are clear and true whether you wish to believe them or not and they have nothing to do with school closures:

1) BVSD is # 1, in central admin COSTS yet #7 in size by srudents. (this costs the tax payers a lot just as you suggest)
2) BVSD has 1/2 the students Cherry Creek School District has yet TWICE the Admin cots per student that CCSD has (this costs the tax payers a lot just as you suggest) more than $8 million to be exact.
3) 30% equals 8,000 students that are below level and has not improved in 10 years (this costs the tax payers a lot just as you suggest)
4) Running one very large central admin center complex that is old, energy inefficient, wastes a lot of space, (this costs the tax payer a lot of money just as you suggest)
Selling this site would bring about $20 million + and decrease alot of debt. Maybe even hire you full time if you are part of the solution and not the problem to help the 8,000 gap kids.
5) get off the old Helayne Jones & Co. rant about CAPE being just about two school closures. (factually, it was 3 closed plus relocation of 4) (This DID cost the tax payers a lot of money just as you suggest) not to mention it was very disruptive for thousands of kids but they survived. The issues are more than this so stop the fear mongering.

Localizing will not be that disruptive for the kids just the administrators and blind status quo denyers such as yourself.

Fear mongering will end with localization and removal of these administrations (both local and National)

Posted by eap on June 13, 2008 at 9:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It's been done before. This is from a NYC resident, three years ago:

"Last Tuesday, I slapped a "sold" sign on the building located at 110 Livingston Street in Downtown Brooklyn, the headquarters of what was the Board of Education for more than 60 years. Like last year's decision to move the Department of Education to the Tweed Building next to City Hall, selling 110 Livingston sent another powerful message that the old school bureaucracy that served only itself instead of our students is history. In its place, we're working with parents to build an education system that is open, accountable, and that puts children first — all the things that the previous school structure housed at 110 Livingston was not."
http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/n...

Posted by louisebenson on June 14, 2008 at 6:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The BVSD Board, by hurriedly scheduling this meeting before finding out if CAPE members could attend, appears to be trying to upstage a long-planned event on the topic, being held by PLAN Boulder and CAPE at the Boulder Main Library at noon on Friday, June 20th, which is open to the public.

Best to:

For accurate information, check the Citizens Advocating Public Education website
http://www.bvsdcape.org

Remember that a successful petition initiates a (unpaid, balanced) Planning Committee to study and elucidate all issues for presentation to the public BEFORE it goes to the ballot.

Posted by siggy1123 on June 17, 2008 at 4:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You know I am sick and tierd of hearing about all the administrative raises (who make over $100,000) and all the laid off teaches. The teaches are the workers here. The administration is doing nothing to help BVSD. I think they need to get rid of everyone - including the board and start over. This is such waste in this ecomic crisis we are having.